As Islam is increasingly being portrayed as an obscurantist and violent religion which promotes cruelty, terrorism, human rights violation and a hindrance to progress & modernization, the Muslim apologists - who sometimes go by the label “moderate Muslims” - are desperately trying to defend Islam as a religion of peace, progress and modernity. In their desperation, Muslim apologists are often making extraordinary claims such as Islam’s contribution to human civilization as a measure of Islam progressiveness.
Debate on Islamism and Liberalism in the Arab World Deteriorates to an Exchange of Curses
Following are excerpts from a debate on secularism and Islamism in the Middle East with Syrian author Nidhal Na’isa and Egyptian cleric Sheik Ibrahim Al-Khouli, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on October 30, 2007.
The non-hat wearing fellow had numerous good points. So I’m still not thinking the Muslims are a violent war mongering people as a whole, this only serves to perpetuate the widespread belief and opinion that these radical folks are the main taboo squeeze, because that other fellow was really enlightened. I suppose I came out of this post with a glimmer of hope mixed quite uncomfortably with a new interpretation of Hitler.
-William
http://www.William-Mac.com
http://www.ThisWeekinTime.com
William,
I know I come off to many as saying the Muslims themselves are violent. The point I usually am trying to get across is that the religion itself promotes violence. There is a lot of evidence of that just from al-Qur’an and even more when one gets into the Hadith and other texts. Not to mention the media in the Muslim countries.
I posted this video because it an example of the many Arabs, Muslim or not, that are beginning to challenge the teachings of Islam and it’s scholars.
I have a couple more I will be posing soon as well. Hopefully the glimmer of hope you and I have in common can continue to be expanded upon as more people stand up to 7th century ideology.
All religion meens is civilization “reference Qur’an”…. Islam minus the “tails of the ancients” by criminal intent from Hillary Cliton and her band of manipulation fearmongers’will due more 4 the world and america than the 527 committe they have set up to defeat President Obama Muslim conscience , who was taught the Wisdom of the Qur’an and belief N the constitution so that “Insha-Allah” we as obscurantist can return to human form and stop this zombie behavior
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(6/7)It should not surprise us that when a person starts believing in the Koran a demonic product he turns evil. In the New Testament in the letter to the Ephesians 4:30..” God’s Holy Spirit.. gets rid of all bitterness, passion, anger.. hateful feelings of any sort.. instead makes you kind and tender hearted.. forgiving one another.. as God has forgiven you through Christ.” This Spirit is not the spirit that leads practicing muslims to pillage, maime, rape, kill and to become suicide bombers.
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(7/7) As Christians in the West we have a great opportunity and obligation to lovingly approach our Muslim neighbours with the Good News of the true Jesus so that their eyes may be opened and step from darkness into light, if we don’t, it will be to our own detriment, as Christianity is the only defense against Islam.
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what happen man you disapeared is every thing ok ? or arguing with another muslim ? man you should deebat face 2 face not by the cumputer coz you can’t get the hole pic like that may god protect you shabeeb the founder and front man of the black metal band arabia if you r seeking thr truth you’l c that your information is 100% wrong go 2 islamic centers and you can ask them any type of questions
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You’s are as bad as each other.Fanitics.Why dont we have a war and kill many people and destroy many cultures to find out who’s right! Both idiots.
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man the funniest thing about you guyz that you never show us what is the real problem in islam you guyz alwayz use silly things and it’s not enough 2 proof islam is false show us your proof coz belive is based on truth and you never say the truth of what the problem is you say it’s satanic and sum other things what satanic writes a hole chapter in the honer of mary the mother of jesus in your hole bible their is no chapter called mary or jesus is that sitanic ?
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man i don’t know from where you heard that that’s so silly man y can’t jesus b a mesanger y is that 2 heavy 4 you 2 belive i’m just asking so i understand is coz your bible sayz son of man 83 times and 13 times as the son of god and sum say he is god you don’t think that their is sum thing wrong with that all muslims have the same belif there is no diffrense between us as in race and other things races where you cum from is an issue don’t deniy that try 2 expand ur mind and think then it’s ur ch
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then the you analize the pic and the choice is your’s no muslim is a muslim if he does’nt belive in jesus pbuh or in his message 2 man kind that goes 2 all the profits moses ibraham noah adam we belive even in the jewwish book but the real holy books not the ones which exsist 2 day like the bible and the towra coz their is virions and the quran is only one verion and they r all the same how can islam b the enamy muhammed’s pbuh name is mentioned only 5 times jesus pbuh 25 y
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y would a satanic teach the pepole that mary the mother of jesus pbuh is the chosen women above all the wemon of the world ? y would an arab do that go out of his way and tech pepole that is that sitanic and no man should starve that the strong should not impress the week is that evil ? wemon have the right 2 choose or refuse that’s in marrige and they have rights over men is that evil belive me you don’t know what evil is trust me bush and almert r evil and blair wher r the wepons of mass d ?
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Sura 5:47- ‘LET THE PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL (believers in JESUS CHRIST- after all he was the catalyst for the New Testament) JUDGE BY THAT WHICH ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN..’ Your Quran says Christians are right!
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As long as Satan can convince you that Jesus was no better than any other prophet and isn’t necessary for salvation, YOU WILL GO TO HELL.That is all that is needed. Satan has covered his tracks with what seems to many as to be ‘holy scriptures’- Would the devil create a book called ‘Satanic Satanism for Dummies’? NO! He’s smarter than that! He might call it something ‘religious’ sounding.. Say it came from an angel.. Include some Biblical prophets for credibility.. add a pinch of Jesus..
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Christians don’t want to kill anybody- I certainly don’t. The goal is to show people the truth in the hopes they will accept Christ and be in heaven forever. Killing people would make that, uh.. Difficult. Muslims on the other hand don’t mind the idea of sending ‘infidels’ to hell…
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Well … it’s very good that there is a debate ongoing after all …
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man do sereisly belive that no religon in the world allows what ur saying tel me y you never answer the question i sent you jesus pbuh is the truth but not the way you c it this is the only diffrence between the muslim and the cristain and that’s the divity of christ he’s right in what way you mean that he’s god god does godly things not turning in 2 a man god spoke 2 man through noah ibraham jesus pbuh all y should the western world still b suprised that god spoke 2 us through muhammed
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where in the quran it sayz that the christians right in what way you mean man you 1st of all from where do you get this info can u tel me plz
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Western civilization is rotten and decayed? Perhaps. Certainly nowhere near as rotten and decayed as that guy’s teeth though.
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It is incredible that muslims still speak of the ‘dark age’ before Muhammad where supposedly all arab tribes were at war and there was no law: Jihad has not ceased during the 1400 years that islam has been in existed, it is clear that there is a serious dysfunction and a problem of absolutism within Islamic ideology and people are reluctant to be honest about this, maybe out of fear!
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Did that imam have the audacity to say that Spaniards long for a return to Islamic civilization?!!!!
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The imam also fails to clarify how one’s sexuality determines one’s character. It is not self evident to anyone who does not believe in his crazy ideology. I’ve met many people who would be considered promiscuous or sexually liberal who are sweet, decent, hard working citizens who mean absolutely no harm to anyone or to the state or to society (unlike his terrorist criminals who love iniquity and hate justice). Homophobia is nothing but a vulgar superstition.
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Very funny how desperate the sheik ibrahim al-khouli gets with his debate as he tries to make a direct link between “matereialistic technology and homosexuality”. Moreover, I highly doubt this man would have anything bad to say about homosexuality if he were to be in the company of two beautiful women having sex before his very eyes. As far as islam being a “religion of peace”, the only reason why islam does not attack other cultures with direct military force is because it can’t.
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if islam cant attack other cultures, how do explain 9/11, and london bombings and dozens of other attacks?
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9/11 isn’t what I’d call the usage of “direct military force”. I was actually refering to a military invasion involving thousands of troops, armored vehicles, etc…
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Jimraynor45 and how you expalin the theft of PALESTINE ?AND THE KILLING OF 2 MILLION ALGERIANS AND 1 MILLON IRAQI Babies?and much more atrocities you commited in the last 200 years?
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JohnQRandom Type this in googleanimal passion channel4 UK TVand see how christian women raping dogs and ponies while wearing the cross and are proud of it and set up a site to sell their video fucking animals!!and yet you come here you whore lecturing others about civility when in fact you don’t know the fucking meaning of the word!!oh and no worry when you type that in google you won’t end us in christian bestiality site made and trun by jews !!
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saadaya and you know it all eh?tell me how many millions of civilians did the christian kill in lets say 200 years ?and how many criminals did Muslims kill in 1400 years?the history of the last 100 years, the ‘jewish Century’ as writer Yuri Slezkine put it-The genocide of Christian Europe in both World Wars that were engineered by world jewry–hundreds of millions killed.The Bolshevik (Jewish) Revolution that-when all was said and done–resulted in the deaths of as many as 66 million…
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If you want to argue with me online first change your name you fucking bigot
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saadaya and if you want to learn from me kike stop swearing you fucking hymie !!
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I’m not jewish u camelfucker
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saadaya : Type this in googleanimal passion channel4 UK TVand see how christian women raping dogs and ponies while wearing the cross and are proud of it and set up a site to sell their video fucking animals!!a Public TV Programe watched by 20 million Brit in one day alone !! they had to obscure the sex act with the animals so they can show itoh and no worry when you type that in google you won’t end us in another christian bestiality site made and promoted by jews !!
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The jews legally bought Palestine from the arabic owners. Its only after the jews starting to make profits that the arabs got jealous and attacked. I dont excuse the killing of innocent people. In fact, im an atheist
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Jimraynor45 : The jews legally bought Palestine from the Arabic owners. hehehe !! this is the first time i hear someone selling his country As if it is a private property of one person ?so if if i buy a house or a farm in France or America that give me the right to own their countries yes?
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Jewsareliars, read up on your history and you’ll learn that the ancient israelites were in “Israel” 2600 years before it was settled by muslims. The only reason islam expanded as far as it has in the first place is because since 630 AD muslims have had a tendancy to encroach upon other cultures, settle in, reproduce like rabbits, build mosques and then demand “cultural sensetivity” on behalf of all non-muslims. Bashing christianity holds no water either as I am not a christian (or jew).
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JohnQRandom (read up on your history) i read history and i found that even the Iraqi Abraham had to buy with cash a small patch of land from the cannanites the anncestors of the palestinians to bury his Iraqi wife SARAH
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JohnQRandom it’s funny and strange at the same time how you accept as a jew a convert from Khazaria,Russian and Poland but you try to bury the fact that the cannanites who accepted Islam suddenly you make them Strangers to their own land you try to make them a different race simply because they changed their faithif an American become Muslim does that make him become ARAB too ? unless you are a jew which is normal for you to have a warped logic
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JohnQRandom : if Muslims were bad as you viciously try to paint them did exterminate every jews and christian they encountred like the crusaders or the conquistadors done with aztec and incas and they could have done it they were the only superpowers on those daysyou would not be here lying about themit seem tolerance is a bad idea to you !!
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jewsareliars, we can go on and on about history. Be it the crusades, the muslim conquests, the “conquistadors” (lol you’re getting desperate) but the fact reamins, IN THE PRESENT DAY, saudi arabia prohibits other faiths within their borders and egypt still doesn’t recognize marriages between christian men and muslim women. Moreover, many muslims proudly admit that it is their duty to see that the world converts to islam. And you’re wondering why western nations attack islamic ones.
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JohnQRandom here we go again someone corner you from a lie you invent another one ?first saudi arabia prohibits other faiths within their bordersthe same with Vatican beside you don’t sleep with your sister even if you love her the same saudi might like you but not to he extend to let you in2) many muslims proudly admit that it is to see that the world converts to islam well their duty eh? i never met a muslim work to covert anyone the evangelist spend a fortune doing it in divious ways
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JohnQRandom egypt still doesn’t recognize marriages between christian men and muslim women.why do you want to marry a muslim women when you hate muslims?beside the christian too refuse to mary Muslims men just visit some Arab dating sites and see what christian women say like only christian men can contact me?and you can’t marry someone who love God when you are a hater of God It’s like asking Satanto be Friend with a prophet of God it wont work!!
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eviljews : hello mate i see you took care of it thanks !
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JohnQRandom the muslim conquest, eh?leberating the victims of the vicious church that demand the right of the first night is conquests eh? “conquistadors”(lol you’re getting desperate what do you call the new version of conquistadors in Palestine,Iraq and Afganistan?what was your excuse for invading Iraq? wmd?the same you did with other victims as soon as you find someone weaker than you with resources you invade kill and steal and at THE SAME TIME PLAY THE VICTIMS that is what YOU ARE !
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Until so-called “peace loving moderate” muslims begin to take a stand against islamic extremism, not to mention re-write their precious quran that they so proudly claim has been unchanged for 1400 years, then you can count on islamic nations being invaded my friend. Also, I am not a christian, so bashing them to somehow justify the faults of islam will produce nothing on your behalf.
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Furthermore, if you have so much faith in your allah, then why do you object the death of fellow muslims? After all, upon their death, muslims go to a **really really good place** where as non-muslims go to a **really really bad place**.
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eveiljew, I never said I wanted to marry a muslim woman, just as I have never said I’m a christian. Moreover, I’m not talking about “dating websites” I’m talking about the lack of seppartion between mosque and state within islamic countries. Don’t feel bad little man, if those christian women won’t contact you on that: “I can’t get laid site” you can always revert back to your favorite past time of masturbation.
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JohnQRandom : you seem to be hiding your identity and faith from me why is that are you scared ??
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JohnQRandom mosque and state within islamic countries ? why don’t you fucking mind your own business eh ?Bush was elected because of 35 millions fanatic killers voted for him and because he promissed them he do them favours like converting poor weak nations by bribes and force!!
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The media has not given enough attention to the insidious campaign that is taking place this very minute to reduce and wipeout Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and the various other religious traditions that are followed by large sections of humanity.
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the christians appears infatuated with “Muslim fanaticism.” We are told over and over again that Islam preaches fanaticism, and that Muslims are allegedly violent and have a blind hatred of non-Muslims. But really, how true are these vacuous claims? They are stories made to justify violent attacks on the Muslim community around the world, and take attention away from those who really harbour ill-will against followers of other religions.
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I have no faith in organized religion my friend, that is my advantage over you. Also, suicide bombings, female gentalia mutilation, the destruction of 500 year old buddhist statues, public stonings, public hangings, public beheadings, sharia law and islamic extremest rallies are a reality asshole. I suggest you wake up and take a stand against it all before it’s you who winds up in a body bag.
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JohnQRandom why you jews are deceivers?sometime masquerading as christians and sometime as Aheist and sometime even posing as Muslims?why did Jesus call you the devil littersand why God hate you too?and why Moses killed 3000 of you in 1 hour ?
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Why don’t I mind my own business? Fine, as soon as Saudi Arbia stops funding the construction of mosques in North America and in Europe. If you’re going to live in a non-muslim country, then have the courtesy to keep your religion out of the public eye rather than demanding the right ot wear head scarves and burkas inside public institutions such as schools. If you don’t like the idea, you now where you can go.
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JohnQRandom now i know you are a kikethis is your medecine hymiesuicide bombings? the first suicide killer was a jew samson and B52 is worstfemale gentalia ? you have Designer vagina destruction of buddhist statuesso now you support idoletry eh?beside the british detroyed the oldest and most beautiful mosque in India public stonings where i never saw one but you hang people and electocute them nowi suggest you pull your finger from your ass and wake up you jews are the worst!
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eviljew, muslim clerics visit the American prison sytem daily in hopes to convert inmates to islam. An example of this is Mike Tyson. Muslim clerics took a high profile, troubled figure and wanted to show the world how islam could change a person for the better. look at him now, he’s worse off than before. Even in my home town of Milwaukee there is a local tv show called “islam live” on every Sunday which preaches against the gospel while urging people to convert to islam.
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JohnQRandom you are a fisrt class cunt you know!!Fine, as soon as Saudi Arbia stops funding the construction of mosques in North America and in Europe. at the same time you ask why the saudi don’t allow you to build churches?when in fact that is what you want to do!!and at the same time you claim to be tolerant and “civilised” hehehe you jewish cunt!!
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JohnQRandom muslim clerics visit the American prison sytem daily in hopes to convert inmates to islam.?you are a liar !!they go there like priest and rabbis do to provide service to their “flocks”but because you are full of venon you concoct your own version of facts?Tyson was introduced first to ISLAM BY OTHER African American Muslims hence his knowledge is still very poor and do you compare that with an organised well funded army of evangelist with billions and 100 of cable channels?
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Again, I don’t give a a shit if they build churches in Saudi or not, I was simply using it as an example to show the intollerance of islam. And no, I’m not jewish. However I do respect them much more as they have 140 nobel prize winners compared to your 8, yes only “8″ muslims have won that award and that’s if you count Yasser Arafat. Tyson walked out of prison with an entourage of islamic clerics my friend and was visited by them frequently. Put down your holy book and educate yourself.
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JohnQRandom i’m not surprise you deny your jewishness i don’t blame you who want to be a kike ?this is what your own God said about you jews?(Obadiah verses 2-4) in the TorahBehold, you jews I will make you small among the nations, you will be utterly despised.
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JohnQRandom oy kikei debated many different assholes in over 10 years on different subjects and in various forums and i never lost a debate !!!!and i developed this six sense about the kikesafter few exchanges i can tell what version of stupidity i’m facingand your jewish flavous of stupidity is full of wickedness which is different from stupidity of lets say christian which is full of ignorance you jews not only you are stupid and think you are smart but you are evil and wicked too
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You’ve never lost a debate? Well, looks as though you just got your ass kicked in this one. You’re resorting to name calling and ethnic slurs which have nothing to do with me my friend, not to mention your only defense against anything negative I’ve said about islam is to immediately bash other religions. Remember, YOU’RE the one who thinks 72 virgins await you in heaven, not me. Lacking a little faith are we?? Then renounce islam and stop spreading your bullshit propaganda on youtube.
[From YouTube]
I told you if you wanted to argue with me to change your name first because I can’t argue with you if you’re not objective. You’re going to try to say that “muslims are always innocent and Xtians and jews are always evil” when everyone knows that not a week goes back without muslims massacring hundreds of people in the name of their sick religion. The only religion that truly teaches non-violence by example is Buddhism, an atheist religion - go figure
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JohnQRandom oy kike i know you kikes go mad when you lose a debate so you resort to dismissivness and fabrication no worry kike as for the 72 virgins well why not every boy WANT TO BE ROCK STARS ONLY SO THEY CAN SLEEP WITH AS MANY GIRLS AS Possible ask Gene Simmons who slept with 3000 women hehehe
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saadaya pissoff wankeryour type of liars are more stupid than stupididty it self !!
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JohnQRandom beside your own jewish God also funcy some virgins hehehe so if your god want them why not simple mortals eh?Numbers 31:35-40 “[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [virgin girls].” oh boy even your god get a bad deal hehehe only 32 that’s all eh ? hehehe
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You’re actually bringing up gene simmons??? You are so desperate and talking in circles, I can’t make heads or tails of what you’re trying to say. Judging by the pluses and minuses left next to our names, I’d say it was a landslide victory for me, and an easy one at that. And no, I’m still not jewish but go ahead and assume so if it helps you sleep at night. (please give up while you still have made only a “semi-ass” of yourself.)
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JohnQRandom oy kike gene simmons eh ? hehehe you didn’t see that one coming eh?so kike Judging by the pluses and minuses is a sign of who won yes?i can see how you login in with a different user IDs and admiring your slef hehehejust pissoff you idiot you can’t possibly know how stupid you appear to others !!but for me i knew from the first second you are an idiot !!
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Wrong again jewsarliars, this is the only account I have, sorry. My advice to you is to close your account, make a new one and start over.